Every so often, we wonder over to Our Kingdom. Basically, we find it a tosspot, full of itself, PC, middleclass, anti-English project.
Popping over today, we found Tom Griffin flagging up the views of Plaid Cymru Assembly member Leanne Woods:
Labour and many of the left parties have argued that Scottish and Welsh nationalism is regressive – a diversion that undermines British working class unity, which should be opposed. They refuse to acknowledge the inevitability of both countries becoming, at some point in the future, independent.
And when we leave the union, what will England then do? The loudest expressions of English national identity have until recently come from the far right. Often confusing Britishness and Englishness, theirs has been an imperialist, exclusive and racist nationalism, one that progressives rightly abhor.
But there are growing signs of progressive voices in England who are seriously addressing the issue of post-devolution English identity.
My God - think of the injustices visited upon the English by racist Little Waleans, many of whom believe themselves to be ethnically pure "Celts". Think of the fact that the British National Party Leader IS WELSH. Think of the current state of health apartheid, the West Lothian Question, which none of our non-racist, touchy feely Welsh neighbours see any need to mention. Because it only affects the English.
But it was big of Leanne Woods to drop a few encouraging words our way.
And nice of Tom Griffin to flag it up on OK. All fantasy pure bred "Celts" together, is it?
Think of the current state of health apartheid, the West Lothian Question, which none of our non-racist, touchy feely Welsh neighbours see any need to mention. Because it only affects the English.
ReplyDeleteIn fairness, I think OurKingdom can claim to have flagged up those issues quite frequently.
All fantasy pure bred "Celts" together, is it?
Not as far as I am concerned. I can't speak for Leanne Wood but it would seem she was trying - successfully or not - to build links with English people.
I see, Tom, but Ms Wood's silence on little matters like health apartheid, the West Lothian Question, the Barnett Formula, etc, and her witterings about racist/imperialist British nationalism being a confused version of "English" nationalism (despite the leader of the BNP currently being WELSH) is indicative of somebody trying to "build links with English people" is it?
ReplyDeleteFrankly, we thought she sounded bloody patronising and holier than thou - as though her own country's nationalism was somehow beyond reproach.
I see your point. The very title "Our Kingdom" seems ridiculous - when you think of the democratic deficit levelled against the English. And everything's discussed so languidly - there 's not a lot of passion. There is no urgency about addressing issues like "health apartheid" as you call it on OK.
ReplyDeleteOn the plus side, I've come across some great posts by EP campaigners. On the negative, OK has allowed some Celtic myth/anti-English bile I've found mind boggling.
The leader of the BNP isn't Welsh though. Born in Barnet and educated in Suffolk before going to Cambridge.
ReplyDeleteHe moved to Wales later on in life.
Thanks for that - we stand corrected. Sincere apologies. However, Griffin was simply the icing on the cake of our argument. This does not change the fact that the Welsh stand idly by whilst the English are discriminated against by the "UK" Government, that the English have been attacked (as has their livestock) and their properties burned in Wales - simply because they are English, and that a lot of Welsh nationalist sentiment is based on the notion that the Welsh are an abused ancient white tribe called "the Celts".
ReplyDeleteThe facts about Griffin do not alter what we are trying to say, which is that Leanne Wood and her like make no mention of such strong and prevalent facets of Welsh nationalism - but are very willing to look down on, criticise and sift out the bad points surrounding the varying forms of English nationalism.
Just a couple of notes.
ReplyDeleteFirst by "livestock" I assume you mean the "Horse-slaying" business earlier this year. There was huge controvest at the time because there was no way that attack was as it seemed.
Have a read here if you're interested http://amlwchmagor.blogspot.com/2008/04/whodonnit.html
As for properties burnt down, to say that it was "simply becuse they are English" is wrong. No English person who moved to live in Wales saw their house burnt down. The movement was against holiday homes,not English moving in. (And of course it as also 30 years ago now!)
I really wish there was a strong English nationalist movement. But you can't deny that to a lot of English people, the words "English nationalists" makes them think of the old British Nationalism of the BNP and National Front. It's not a corrct analogy, but nfortunately it prevails.
Thankfully over recent years things have moved on a bit. The English are prouder of their own national identity these days and long may that last and grow!
We would like to agree with you, but unfortunately a couple of us have visited Wales ourselves and have been exposed to anti-English ... we'll call it "rhetoric", but in reality it was more like vitriol.
ReplyDeleteAnd we have friends who have suffered similarly.
We recall the famous "Not The Nine O'Clock News" sketch in the early 1980s: "Come Home To A Real Fire - Buy A Cottage In Wales", and there was no excuse for this behaviour and no doubt that anti-English hatred was involved.
There was concern in rural parts of England about holiday cottage buyers, but people were not setting fire to the properties!
When people like Leanne Wood begin pointing out moot points in British/English nationalism (and let's face it, England has been submerged in Britishness for so long it is only recently that a distinct, REAL English nationalism has begun to emerge), that we tend to twang back.
If, however, we could read more from Welsh nationalists about negative forms of Welsh nationalism, we'd feel more content that an accurate picture was being presented and that some Welsh nationalists were not living in glass houses and throwing stones.
Yes, the Celt thing stinks and there's no doubt that there is anti-English bigotry in Wales and Scotland. Mind you, many English writers encourage it - referring to the "Celts", "Celtic nations" and "Celtic fringe".
ReplyDeleteWe need a good air clearing session where a lot of the piffle and bunkum is cleared away. And we do need more honesty and less of the "we're persecuted, but lovely - the English smell" stuff from some Welsh nationalists.
But the UK Government likes things blurred and divided. And the opposition parties are apparently the same. Don't expect a major change anytime soon.
C&M&D&D - it's sad that you've suffered some anti-English abuse, but believe me that's a stream that runs both ways.
ReplyDeleteMy Welsh exile friends in England suffer sheep-shagging and taffy the thief "jokes" every day at work.
You don't even have to move to England to receive it. There's many a village in Wales where an Englishman has moved in and spends his days mouthing off about the local community or the welsh in the school.
Thankfully the majority of English people who move here are not like that and respect the fact that they are not in England any more and respect the language, maybe even learn some of it. Those people never suffer any anti-English abuse. That should tell you something.
You are a liar. There are many Welsh people in Cambridgeshire where we live (one of them in our village who insists on being called "Taffy") and in no way do they encounter the type of bile that we encountered in Wales.
ReplyDeleteThe English are not so twisted up about Wales and the Welsh, they simply do not spend as much time thinking about the Welsh as the Welsh do about the English. You have a distorted body image as far as Wales is concerned.
You need to grow up. You are the type of Little Walesian who comes round with simpering words trying to ingratiate.
But your view is that the Welsh are basically blameless.
Well you're entitled to that view. Just as we are entitled to the view that people visiting Wales from England need to bear in mind as they suffer all the bile of pent-up Welsh racism, that they are basically PAYING for this "proud nation".
Don't bother calling again, dear - like so many deluded, anti-English Welsh nationalists you reveal your hand far too quickly. But we were fooled for a short while.
I thought it might end up like this. There are a lot of Hens around! Firstly, I work with a Welsh bloke and hardly ever think of the fact he's Welsh. He's not that bothered either!
ReplyDeleteSecondly, if you insult a Welsh person in England you can be reported to the police. Fly the English flag in Wales and you can be in trouble for inciting the Welsh to violence.
But no, it's all one sided or tit for tat according to the likes of Hen. The Welsh never initiate, are never to blame.
Hen is probably scratting about desperately, giving out your blog details to lots of "Welsh" people who can write and tell how they've been amused by the monsterous Hun (aka the English).
ReplyDelete"A family cut short their holiday in Gwynedd after being attacked by a rock-throwing youth, a court has been told.
ReplyDeleteDolgellau Youth Court heard the 16-year-old also abused the family from Bolton because they were English."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/7631733.stm
This is not a situation I read about with Welsh visitors to England. I see what you're saying here: there's a strong fascist element in Welsh nationalism - as strong as the BNP - and most of it is focussed on the English.
But most Welsh nationalists carry on as though they are above reproach, whilst coolly denouncing the English.
The mother of the c***y leader of the BNP had the maiden name Thomas. Isn't that a Welsh surname?
ReplyDelete