What an absolute liar Gordon Brown is!
Here he goes again:
Writing in the News of the World, Mr Brown insisted: "It is my ambition to create a Britain in which there is a clear expectation that all young people will undertake some service to their community, and where community service will become a normal part of growing up in Britain."
Two mentions of "Britain" in one sentence, but the dishonest toad has no authority on this matter in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland - only in England, where he is not accountable to the electorate.
We really do need an honest Government which is accountable to the electorate in England. The sooner we vote this England-hating Scots-elected dictator out, hiding as he does behind the smoke and mirrors of a fictitious "Britain", the better.
This is a laughably unjustified attack on Gordon Brown, who -- since you seem to have forgotten -- is prime minister of the whole of Britain (plus Northern Ireland)and not just of England. Even if England were to have its own legislature and executive, as the other three nations do, there would still be an obvious need for an all-UK federal government and parliament and Gordon Brown could perfectly well be its head of government, with just as much authority to speak for Britain as President Obama has to speak for the United States. Stop whingeing!
ReplyDeleteGordon Brown is not introducing a system of Community Service for Britain. Only for England. He is not speaking for Britain - this area is devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
ReplyDeleteBe civil when you comment here and learn your facts. You are very rude and ill-informed.
Of course Gordon Brown should not be foisting legislation on to England and pretending its to be right across Britain. And as for Mr Barder's ignorance and rudeness... well, it's the older generation. They're not what they were!
ReplyDeleteYes - Britain = England, Scotland and Wales; UK = England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Community Service legislation = England.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Gordon Brown have the courage to say when legislation he is proposing does not even apply to his own constituents? Why is he so afraid to say "England"? Because he knows he's got no bloody right to be doing what he's doing - we never elected him and he won't allow us equality with Scotland. But then he DID sign the 1989 Scottish Claim Of Right, didn't he, promising to put Scotland's interests first in all he does?
ReplyDeleteEvil man.
How boringly predictable that a simple, straightforward, factual comment, pointing out that the accusation of lying against Gordon Brown in this instance was totally unjustified, indeed laughable, should prompt the usual crop of personal insults ("rude", "ignorant", etc.) from people whose style of 'argument' degrades the blogosphere!
ReplyDeleteThe prime minister, to make the point even more starkly clear, was voicing an ambition about the kind of Britain (short-hand, as often in colloquial speech, for the whole UK, not just the three nations of 'Great Britain') he would like to see. He was manifestly not talking in terms of constitutional powers or legislation. There is in any case no legislation on the books for introducing community service in England, or anywhere else in the UK, as far as I'm aware -- and if there was I think we'd all know about it. As a national leader and head of government of the whole of the UK, including all its four nations, the prime minister has an absolute right, indeed a duty, to talk about the kind of country he wishes to see and lead the way to. To call this a lie is to corrupt political discourse, and the accusation should be withdrawn with a suitable apology. (About as likely as a conference of Little Englanders all wearing the kilt.)
I have long argued the case for a parliament (and government) for England as a necessary step on the road to a fully federal United Kingdom. But the visceral hatred and resentment of Scotland and the Scots evinced by so many other advocates of a parliament for England do their cause no good at all. On the contrary, they damage it, perhaps irrevocably. Hence my appeal, which I repeat, to stop whingeing.
End of story (as far as I'm concerned, anyway!).
No, not "end of story", Brian B. From the Press Association:
ReplyDelete"Mr Brown proposed the idea of a National Youth Service to channel teenagers into voluntary work last year. It is due to be formally launched in September, and would become compulsory if Labour was re-elected."
I don't know why you don't know about it, but there it is. And it only applies to England.
To my mind, going around telling people to stop whingeing - when you do not have a grasp of the relevant facts yourself - is rude and arrogant.
You describe Britain as a "country" - "to talk about the kind of country he wishes to see and lead the way to."
Well, Britain IS NOT a country, it is a so-called union of countries.
Once again you display your ignorance.
I'm afraid your style of argument on here "degrades the blogosphere", not mine, and whilst Gordon Brown continues to try and muddy the distinction between England and Britain in an attempt to delude the electorate in England into believing that devolution has not happened, and whilst England continues to be denied parity with Scotland, then I will continue to protest.
Calm down, dear, it's only a blog.
ReplyDeleteThe Brown proposal for voluntary service is proposed for the Labour Party's election manifesto. It would commit the Labour Party in each of the four UK nations to this policy. Gordon Brown is leader of the Labour Party as well as prime minister. Nothing in his statement even begins to approximate to a lie. To accuse your head of government of being a liar is a serious matter. Since you have failed to substantiate the accusation, you should withdraw it. (But if you did so, I would fall off my chair with surprise.)
The constant complaint that England (biggest, richest and most powerful of the UK's four nations) is somehow a poor relation in regard to Scotland is pitiable. Calling it a whinge is an understatement.
I shall treasure your denial that Britain is a country.
I'm sad that you continue to find it so difficult to conduct a civil discussion, even a civil argument, without descending to personal abuse. Perhaps you will forgive me for not following your example.
Chris, don't encourage him! Reasoned replies are like water off a duck's back! He doesn't listen. Mind you, I must admit I chuckled over his belief that Britain is a country but, apart from the odd scrap of entertainment value, comments from this gentleman should be treated as spam.
ReplyDelete"Calm down, dear"? Bitchy as well as rude and arrogant, eh, Brian?
ReplyDeleteYou are clearly a highly deluded individual if you truly believe that Britain is a country, not a so-called union of countries, and if you do not know about the details of the Barnett Formula, the West Lothian Question and health apartheid then I pity you.
If you believe that Gordon Brown proposing legislation for England and saying it is for Britain is not a lie, then I pity you.
As for Gordon Brown being head of "my government" - I never voted for him to be PM. Oh, what a surprise, NONE of us did.
Perhaps you might now care to go off and try to "flame" somebody else? It's certainly not working here.
I do hope you enjoy your day.
Without overturning the will of the national legislators for the countries of Scotland and Wales (yes, countries - separate countries from England with national governing bodies with devolved powers), Gordon Brown cannot impose his vision on Britain - and he knows it full well. He knows full well that he is talking about England only, and he knows full well that to admit it would be to cause questions to be raised about his undemocratic position in the not-so grand scheme of things. Therefore, Gordon Brown is a liar.
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it this plan falls under Education which is a devolved matter. Education is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, and the Welsh and NI assemblies.
ReplyDeleteIn saying this legislation is planned for "Britain" Mr Brown is either mistaken or is deliberately distorting the truth.
Does Mr Brown know that Education is a devolved matter? Has he heard of the Scottish parliament? He signed the Scottish claim of right so I'm thinking he's got a fairly good idea there's a Scottish Parliament.
A definition of lying from dictionary.com is:
"a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood"
We know Mr Brown isn't stupid. But why would he lie? This is why, because if he said:
"It is my ambition to create an England in which there is a clear expectation that all young people will undertake some service to their community, and where community service will become a normal part of growing up in England."
Quite rightly a lot of English people would catch on pretty quickly to the fact that Mr Brown represents a Scottish constituency and isn't there something very wrong with him being able to introduce legislation that doesn't affect his own constituents? Oh and how is it that MPs representing Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can vote on English issues but English MPs can't vote on Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish issues anyway? etc
He is trying to avoid drawing attention to the West Lothian Question - by deliberatly not telling the truth. Which is also known as lying.
Further more he does it all the time. In fact every time he talks about a devolved issue as affecting "Britain", "the UK", "our country" or "the country". Which is about 90% of the legislation going through the UK parliament.
Most worrying is how the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7995652.stm) and other British establishment media allow him to get away with it.